Shah Rukh Khan seems to have sorted out things with the Shiv Sena leadership without having to apologise for his remarks backing Pakistani players and asking for their inclusion in the Indian Premier League (IPL).
In an exclusive interview with CNN-IBN's Editor-in-Chief Rajdeep Sardesai, Shah Rukh says he hasn't changed his view that Pakistani cricketers must get a chance to play in the IPL. And to say that he need not apologise to anybody.
Rajdeep Sardesai: The Shiv Sena has said that they will not disrupt your film My Name Is Khan and you have said that you are ready to have a drink with the Thackerays.
Shah Rukh Khan: I think somewhere having relationships with Uddhavji (Uddhav Thackeray) and Balasaheb, we still have been conversing through TV interviews but I heard one of his where he said there was never an apology demanded.
From my point of view there was no reason, just a misinterpretation or maybe they've misunderstood what I've said.
Rajdeep Sardesai: How will you respond to those who say you've had a deal between you and the Thackerays, they will not disrupt the film, you will not say anything against them.
How would you respond to those who say that this is a deal which has been stage managed for publicity for your film?
Shah Rukh Khan: I haven't said anything against any group. For me to change that stand would be then I would be saying so I haven't said anything anti-anyone.
What was said was as a free thinking Indian. As far as stage managed etc, is concerned, you have been in the business long enough you know this can't be stage-managed.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Are you willing in a sense as some would suggest to apologise to the Thackerays for your statements where you said Pakistani players should play in the IPL.
Shah Rukh Khan: Unfortunately we are conversing through TV and I heard Uddhavji say that there was never an apology demanded or asked for and I have stated the same thing. I don't realise what is there to apologise.
He kind of said on the TV that if I explain myself which I did at the airport that I'm talking about pro relations with countries, neighbouring or otherwise, I am not pro any other country except my own and I think yes, I do stand by sports, arts, culture. I think that should be untouched by politics & I think we blame a group of people or a nation for the acts of some of them.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Let me be more specific about what you had said. You had said, I believe my country stands for democracy, goodness and welcome-ness.
We should open our arms to everyone and I think we should have a little more leeway in involving people all over the world to come and showcase their talent.
From what you are saying now, do you stand by that statement? Do you stand by the fact that you believe that the Pakistani players should be welcomed to play in the IPL?
Shah Rukh Khan: Yes. I am just hearing in the news that even the Australians are now allowed to be play. My question was: In the Commonwealth (games), aren't all the nations coming here to play? If they are, then I guess it stands even in the field of arts and culture. I think it should be untainted, removed far away from any other such aspect, which are not (related to) political or physical problems in terms of nations. So, I stand by that completely.
Yes I think everyone should be allowed to play which ever sport. Why only cricket or IPL? Whichever art, whichever culture because, you can't blame people for...people from a different field for an action of some really awful people.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Let me then rewind to that IPL auction. If you stated as you have stated that talent knows no boundaries, why didn't Shah Rukh Khan, head of Kolkata Knight Riders choose Pakistani players for the Kolkata Knight Riders? That's when you could have made the point that you are making today?
Shah Rukh Khan: One doesn't choose players to make a point. One chooses player for them to play the game and we had chosen in our hearts and mind and very clearly we were the ones who had suggested the name. Any player who you wish to take, who is a capped player, his name needs to be suggested for the auction. I think everyone knows it. It's not an open secret. Six months ago we had approached Abdul Razzak and at twelve in the night, the night before the auction, I think he hurt his wrist. I was called for an emergency meeting and I went down to the town and Dave and Saurav said 'now what?'
And then, we quickly looked into the kind of slot that we needed to fill in. We had one slot and we wanted either Roach or Shane Bond and we quickly went for Shane bond as he came because of paucity of money. There is no political reason. I think to choose a player because he is from a particular nation would be wrong. You chose a player because of the merit.
Rajdeep Sardesai: So you are saying you wanted to choose Abdul Razzak? You would have chosen Pakistani player?
Shah Rukh Khan: He was the player my captain and my coach were very keen with.
Rajdeep Sardesai: And you only did not choose him because he did not have an injury? Otherwise you would have gone ahead and chosen him?
Shah Rukh Khan: Yeah. We were informed at night that he had hurt his wrist. That's what I was specifically told.
Rajdeep Sardesai: The reason I am asking you Shah Rukh is I know the conspiracy theorists would say that Shah Rukh was worried that his film would not get released in Pakistan hence you suddenly changed your mind and said you would love to have Pakistani players. That it was a commercial decision not an ideological decision. Not something you are committed to.
Shah Rukh Khan: I don't want conspiracy theorists to rest or argue with them but the business in Mumbai is about the ten times more than the business in Pakistan. So, from business' point of view, I would not like the business in Mumbai to suffer more seriously than in Pakistan.
To be honest, I wouldn't be playing a game like this. You know what happened is that after the auction, I did find lot of people reacting, and maybe rightly so, to the fact that none of the Pakistani players were chosen, and everybody was jumping on to the fact that the franchises should have done, not to me.
As a matter of fact, I saw them on TV with other owners and my clarification...more than clarification was...listen! There exists an issue. So sometimes this love-hate relationship that we share with our neighbours, we need to first realise there is an issue and accept it.
Hundred percent it goes into our minds--the visas, the NOCs, maybe an issue when you come on to that area specifically where people may have problems with the players of a certain nationality.
We have considered all this before going ahead and yes it could have shaded or shadowed some of the decisions. But that is like every business decision that everybody would make not necessarily because we are against a nation or in favour of a nation.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Let me put another theory that was sent to me which is that SRK took this stand in a sense because he is a friend of the Gandhi family, friend of the first family of politics.
So, you were in a sense protected. Nothing could be done to a Shah Rukh Khan. An ordinary citizen cannot take on the Shiv Sena or the Thackerays but Shah Rukh Khan can actually take them on and get away with it. How do you respond to that that you are protected?
Shah Rukh Khan: I will also tell you a conspiracy theory I have heard Rajdeep. First, I haven't taken a stand. I have just said what I am saying even now and it's not a confrontational stand at all.
I am not that kind of person. Neither am I a politician to be able to--if I were a politician, yes I would be able to take stands because I hear, with due respect to everyone, all the politicians. They do say mean things about each other, untrue sometimes and true sometimes, and those I feel are really strong and aggressive. I am not like that. I am not a politician.
I am a mere actor--a big actor, a big Star but just an actor. So, I would not do that. For me, the first consideration is my work because that's what I live for and do. Apart from this, the second part which you said is that you know--I think there is a huge misconception that I share anything political with any political friendship that I may have.
I have great relationships with the Gandhis. I have great relationship with Vajpayee sahab and his daughter, with Advani sahab. I have met all of them. I even say that about Balasahab. But politically, I have no relationship and not that I want to clarify.
I don't think I have spoken to the Gandhi family for the last year and a half since maybe, at one of the cricket matches. Post that, I don't think I have even spoken and even if I have maybe...once or maybe we might have bumped into each other. It does not have anything to do with politics.
The third conspiracy theory is that my house has got such high walls, it looks like a fortress. That is why I can take a stand because nobody can hurt me. A common guy can't because his house doesn't high walls.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Let me ask you what did you feel in the last week when you were reading all the headlines that maybe you wanted the film industry to rally around you. Did you feel that maybe the film industry wasn't doing enough to rally around you was there a silence that troubled you of the film industry?
Shah Rukh Khan: No, Rajdeep. I will be very honest in saying that I have no qualms in accepting when I am in the wrong or I have been not strong enough but I have never rallied for anyone when they have been in similar problems and it's not because we are not together. We live together, we really like together; we really like each other and sometimes even love each other. But, there is a huge vulnerability on a Thursday.
Like I have said before, we are not very strong on a Thursday. This becomes very difficult (for) three reasons...There's business, there is distribution and partners but the main reason is that we do get scared if somebody is going to watch my film to smile, they get hurt, they get disturbed and it's a genuine concern and yes, I have been weak in the past.
I have never stood up for anyone and genuinely, I hold nobody responsible for not speaking out because I understand it. I also didn't do it just out of cowardness or scare or something. It's just that the more you speak about issue like this.
I think it is prudent to just keep quite. Let it calm down, because the final analysis...genuinely... as small as it may sound is to get the film to release. So, I have never done it in the past. Those who did, I am very thankful and I think everyone believes in what I said. Those who did not, they also believe. But I just think they are being very prudent. Let't not make it a big issue because film people and other people also are hugely vulnerable as famous as glittery and as glamourous or cool.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Are they vulnerable or afraid? Are you saying that, for example, you have been very candid in saying that perhaps when Aamir was targeted during 'Fanaa' or Amitabh was targeted by groups that....you did not speak out.
Are you then accepting that is it fear or is it simply the commercial consideration that nobody wants to rock the boat?
Shah Rukh Khan: No, the fear is that nobody should get hurt when they are watching my film... Physically hurt, Rajdeep, because when my kids go to watch a film--I was mentioning post 26/11--I didn't allow my kids to go and watch a film in the theatre with my wife and I did not promote 'Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi' asking people to come and watch it because I would not allow my kids. And to answer the question, yes I am afraid because I am vulnerable. Otherwise we are not scared. I don't think none of us are cowards. Bollywood is not.
Rajdeep Sardesai: You are not scared of the Shiv Sena?
Shah Rukh Khan: Whenever, there is any other issue which is of national consequence or not including any drive that your channel asks us to do, we all come together leaving our differences aside. But, when it comes down to a film I'll speak for myself. Let me not speak and that stands for some of the others in the Bollywood but I am scared because I am vulnerable and I accept that.
Rajdeep Sardesai: When you keep saying vulnerable, are you scared of the Shiv Sena? Do you believe that stars in general are scared of the Shiv Sena or is it because your film is to be released and there is a lot of money riding on it or is it the fear of the Sena that prevents stars from speaking out?
Shah Rukh Khan: Everybody talks about the commercial aspect and yes it is an important aspect. We work very hard for one whole year to get that film out. We still don't know whether it will do well or not.
We don't want any untoward thing happening. As a matter of fact, we [want] only good things happening. But, nobody is scared I think. I just think we are afraid because we are vulnerable. The main reason is that we want films to release. That's all we want. Most of us do not have any ideological issues with anyone. I just want my film to release so that the people are entertained.
I was just giving an example that a friend of mine went and apologised and I was party to it. I think it is very brave to stop from ...you know...when you are worried about other people's health and happiness you say well let it be and nobody should get hurt, it's not very commercial let me be honest.
Rajdeep Sardesai: You mentioned your friend's apologies. That's Karan Johar who went and apologised before 'Wake up Sid'. He went to Raj Thackeray's house and the film was released.
You are not going to do a Karan Johar and go to Bala Sahab Thackeray's house and seek an appointment and apologise or just request him to make sure that you have no trouble during the film.
Shah Rukh Khan: Well, I think it became quite clear because, like I have heard on the TV that there is no apology required. It was never asked for and that's very gracious and the fact is that I just needed to explain what I have said that I am pro-relationships.
I think everybody has understood. That's why, at this point as we are talking, hopefully, everything is peaceful. There is no reason on this ideology or this thought or this talk to go to the house of Bala Sahab. But otherwise, I have said 10 times, I have been there. They are very nice and helpful to me and I'll do it again.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Don't you think that if you went to their house, you will give them a larger than life image and the average citizen would say that Shah Rukh has not taken a stand and has let them down.
Why not say that you are standing on principle? You will not meet the Thackerays and you will stand on principles and the principles that you have established. You don't need to meet them do you?
Shah Rukh Khan: No, like I said, I won't be meeting them on this aspect at all because there is no need to it. It is clear from both the sides. But, talking about the same ideology I am standing for or what you call the principle that I am standing for that everyone should have good relationship with everyone.
Whatever your space of ideology or thinking as long as it is not thwarting to my nation. Just on that ideology, why am I going to take a thing like...Oh! I am not going to meet someone. I meet everyone. Like I said every politician, every journalist, every writer who may have completely different views from me. I meet them because that's the ideology I am talking about in the large sense also for the country.
Rajdeep Sardesai: And you have no problem if Karan Johar goes to Raj Thackeray's house and apologises.
Shah Rukh Khan: Like I said, I was party to it. It was the Friday morning. It was a small deal. It needed to be clarified. The film was releasing. New actors and new distributors were involved. When he called and said I might have to apologise, I said well do it if it is for the sake of the film.
Rajdeep Sardesai: If Bal Thackeray rang you and sought an explanation from you on your statements, would you go and meet him and you would feel, no problem with that?
Shah Rukh Khan: If he called me to his house and asked me to be with him and chat with him on things that we have chatted before - his caricatures, his cartoons, films and photography, I would most happily.
Rajdeep Sardesai: But no formal apology?
Shah Rukh Khan: Like I said, Rajdeep, it has not been asked for. I don't think anybody has asked me for an apology. When I say I don't find a reason to apologise, I really think there is no reason to apologise.
If you want me to say it on TV, so that it can be a headline that Shah Rukh Khan refuses to but I very, very clearly want to say that there is no reason to apologise and it's just a big fuss.
It would be nicer if everything went peacefully without anyone having to lose his self-respect or the ideology for that matter.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Have the events of the last one week made you even more conscious of your Indian Muslim ideology?
Shah Rukh Khan: I don't think the Indian part of it should ever be questionable for you or for me. I was reading your tweets. I follow you and I have been reading them and you talked about being from Maharashtra and everything and it has to be very clear that everybody's ideology in this country is India first and everything else - our religion, our state, our region - all will be the second subset of our country.
I have no qualms saying--and they do say--Jai Hind! Jai Maharashtra! Everybody believes in this ideology. The country comes first and the other ideologies comes second whether it is my religious ideology whether it is the state that I belong to and I would like to believe, 20 years now in Mumbai, so I am Mumbaikar, I have always believed that the Indian part of it should be naturally accepted.
I think I have been a good Indian. As good as any Indian next door is. I work hard. I pay my taxes. I don't think I have ever been challenged on my religion. I am an actor who is called Shah Rukh Khan and nobody has ever said anything. But, having said all this, I would also like to make a point. Every time an issue like this arises, I do think--and I will be honest Rajdeep--I am getting more and more careful about what I say.
Sometime I get a little paranoid after having said something and I ask myself whether I said the right thing. Sometimes people misconstrue things due to which I have to get more and more careful which is really sad because, I am a free thinker.
So, sometimes I think about it. I am becoming more and more careful but I guess, not careful enough.
Rajdeep Sardesai: When the Shiv Sena calls you a traitor. When Sena says that Shah Rukh should know that Mannat (the name of Khan's residence in Mumbai) is in India and is not in Pakistan, how do you feel? Do you feel that your patriotism is being questioned sometimes?
Shah Rukh Khan: Yes, I feel hurt. I don't deny that. I feel hurt because I have got little children and I had a fantastic parentage. Many times I feel that whatever I do as an actor, as a person XYZ, but as an Indian, I should make sure that when I die and meet my parents, they should have been very proud of me being a proper Indian as they would have wanted and I also feel that whatever I do should teach my children to be the same.
So, sometimes when I hear things like this, when I read things like this, it is very hurtful. Having said that, I am also trying to get a little thick skinned. That it's ok. Let people say what they are saying. They don't mean it. They are either being sarcastic or more passionate or just aggressive and I have to let it be. It also saddens me that some people I know calling me traitor or non-Indian. That's completely untrue, uncalled for and unreal.
Rajdeep Sardesai: It was said in the 'Saamna', the Sena mouthpiece. Which is why I am troubled that you don't want to take the Sena on. Here is an organisation that calls you a traitor and two days later you are saying that well, the things are ok. It doesn't matter.
I thought you would be angry, outraged. I don't sense any anger and outrage. Is that the way you are as a person?
Shah Rukh Khan: I rather not get angry. When I get angry, I get very angry. That's not a good way to be. I don't want to get angry at this because I am trying to assess this, analyse this and I think I have stuck to my guns as to what I believe of myself and my Indian-ness and that will not be taken away from me or change my mind towards that come what may.
Bottomline--I can just die for this country. There is nothing that can change about me. And I am very proud of it and I would also like to believe that I have made a few Indians proud of the things that I have done in this country and the opportunity given to me by this country and this city and the city I was born in.
But, when people write this, maybe I have become a little thick skinned because being an actor, things are written a lot more about you and exaggerated. So, I would like to even go there. I don't think they justify and answer because they are so silly and unreal.
Rajdeep Sardesai: When Shiv Sena says that Mumbai belongs to the Maharashtrians first. That they have a primacy over Mumbai. How would you respond to that as someone who has moved from Delhi and made a successful like in Mumbai?
Shah Rukh Khan: Like everyone else. I don't know about that ideology but everyone says Jai Hind, Jai Maharashtra. It comes as a subset so I don't know where the question is there of even anyone in Mumbai thinking otherwise or in the country thinking otherwise.
It can be Jai Hind, Jai Delhi...Jai Hind Jai Bihar, Jai Hind Jai Gujarat, Jai Hind Jai Kerala, Jai Hind Jai Bengal. It is always going to be the country first. And me coming form another Union Territory at that time, it's absolutely wonderful. I do agree that whatever I am in my professional job and my life and my future is because of the job I have got in the city. So, I really think very highly of this. How can I be anti-Mumbai?
Rajdeep Sardesai: So, Mumbai belongs to all?
Shah Rukh Khan: Yes. To say this other way round, everybody who has come to Mumbai from outside, they belong to Mumbai. In fact, I am owned by Mumbai. And I also want to say this very, very clearly and the last thing I want to say is anyone getting physically and emotionally damaged in this city.
And anyone who tries or do it to curb an anti-Mumbai sentiment which they assume somebody has because they are not from here, they are exactly doing the same thing---hurting Mumbaikars and Mumbai only. So, I am saying Mumbai doesn't belong to me but I belong to Mumbai.
Rajdeep Sardesai: So, do you think that after 20 years in Mumbai, being a Mumbaikar, you should be learning Marathi. Should SRK be someone who needs to learn Marathi to prove that you are a true Mumbaikar.
Shah Rukh Khan: That would be hugely difficult as I am very bad in languages and personally (not politically) I am quite ashamed that I have not been able to learn the language in 20 years. But my children know it. It's a natural progression. They are born here; they are surrounded by it. But I don't think it should be a prerequisite.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Then why not make a Marathi film?
Shah Rukh Khan: Well I would love to make a Marathi film. I think it's a great cinema.
Rajdeep Sardesai: There is a sense that there is a Shah Rukh Khan who wants to be more than a star take up a political position in general and maybe be a Neta?
Shah Rukh Khan: Sometimes, some mornings I wake up with this nightmare that I will join politics (laughs), because then I can also take very clear stands.
But the unfortunate part of me not wanting to be a politician is that I don't have a small agenda. I have a very generic agenda: humanity, progress, economy, and democracy. I ask my self: If I don't have an agenda, which party do I join? I am bereft of a smaller localised agenda.
I cannot be a politician because I have a generic goodness, modern-ness in my head. It's too generic for anyone to accept me as a politician. Maybe I would not get the votes. Maybe I will be thrown for charges of corruption; maybe I will not be accepted. I don't know if jeans and while shirt goes in politics. Maybe I will be thrown out because I am too modern in thoughts.
Maybe I would not be thick skinned enough to take the jibes. I sometimes wish I was in a profession where I really be untouched, unhurt by this vulnerability of being a big star for years.
Rajdeep Sardesai: The reason why I am asking you this is because in the last week, the statements you made has generated a controversy even though you said you never meant that.
Every tweet you put out people follow it closely. Given that kind of adulation that you have would you even going in that direction given that in the past stars like NTR, MRG formed their own political parties?
Shah Rukh Khan: The only reason I wouldn't do this is that for one I am not selfless enough. I think the politicians need to be hugely selfless.
And secondly, I don't know I am educated enough in this line to be able to take this onslaught because I am quite sure. When I get these onslaughts while being a small star or having said something, which certainly takes a positioning.
It's the first time maybe I have taken a positioning or second time and the onslaught is so harsh and my selfish motives so strong that I want my film to release that I just feel that maybe I will not be able to be facing it. But, you never know.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Do you believe that the stand that you have taken after 26/11, whether it was during the racial profiling incident, now on IPL players from Pakistan, that you will consistently take a stand every time you believe strongly or will it only happen when a film of yours is release? That is how the cynics would put it.
Cynics would say that Shah Rukh is doing this for publicity. Do you believe that this is naturally coming to you now that you have taken a stand on other issue as well? Let's say when the North Indian students are beaten up in Mumbai, will SRK take a stand tomorrow?
Will you take a stand when Taxi drivers in Mumbai are beaten up? Why can't we hear you speaking up on these issues?
Shah Rukh Khan: It happens during film releases because that is the time when I make myself accessible to press and television and media because otherwise, one is normally shooting and not coming ahead.
During 26/11 you called me and said that I got to speak, you are an Indian Muslim and it's important. And yes, I agree with that strangely 20 days later, my film was coming on which we didn't know when it would release because everything was thwarted that time but it happened that time so it hurt a little.
Now too, somebody called and said that you said that statement and there is a big hullabaloo over it. If I am asked about it--
Rajdeep Sardesai: --Hollywood stars take a stand on Iraq, Afghanistan and abortion. Why do you require the media to question you to take a stand? When taxi drivers are beaten up by the MNS, when the north Indian students are beaten up, why doesn't Shah Rukh Khan speak more often on issues that trouble you if you are as humanitarian?
Why only tweet? Why not take a stand in public? You have a strong voice. Why not make it heard for the faceless taxi driver?
Shah Rukh Khan: You are completely right. I think the time has come--and maybe one has been younger and scared because one is vulnerable--and even after being scared, these things happen to you and things go wrong. I think the time has come that whenever there are issues that I feel for or have an opinion on. Not only necessarily a stand because I am not a humanitarian. Not to that extent. I am just a self-serving pompous film star.
But, on grounds of humanity, which if I have to be righteous on that, I will, you are correct. Beyond the Internet, I would like to do it. Maybe next time I think of something, I will call you up and ask you listen put my opinion on board and that is the good part. You can sell innerwear with your voice, if you can sell your film with your voice; it's time you sold your good ideas also through your voice besides the films that you make.
Rajdeep Sardesai: My last question and it's the one that should bring smile on your face. Your kid won a Taekwondo competition over the weekend. It seems that they have their father's competitive jeans.
In the last 10 days, when you have been hearing about these headlines, about SRK Vs Sena, your film's posters being torn down, the possibility that your films might be disrupted. What is it that has held you together or should I say or what matters more 'My Name is Khan' becoming a hit or the kids doing well Taekwondo.
Shah Rukh Khan: My kids are braver than I am because maybe they are sillier and stupider. Maybe they don't know the world enough.
Maybe they are the ones who make me more vulnerable than I would like to be. Maybe, if I did not have kids, I would be as strong as they are. But, they have the grit, they have the tenacity, they have the talent and they are hard working. Their winning the Taekwondo made me so happy. Not just because they can fight, but the fact that they can fight fair and they can stand the ground.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Shah Rukh, thanks for joining us tonight and being so candid on so many issue.
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